But until i experiance shared dreams, or prophecies or something on my own. Chances of me beliving in that are close to 0.
Your mind plays so much tricks on you. It can make you belive many things, but in end… i think it is just ones mind.

That’s what the Buddhists say about dream yoga, and about consciousness in general. I’m also reminded of the story:

An old Cherokee was teaching his grandchildren about life. He said, “A battle is raging inside me…it is a terrible fight between two wolves. One wolf represents fear, anger, envy, sorrow, regret, greed, arrogance, self-pity, guilt, resentment, inferiority, lies, false pride, superiority and ego. The other stands for joy, peace, love, hope, sharing, serenity, humility, kindness, benevolence, friendship, empathy, generosity, truth, compassion and faith.”

The old man looked at the children with a firm stare. “This same fight is going on inside you, and inside every other person, too.”

They thought about it for a minute, and then one child asked his grandfather, “Which wolf will win?”

The old Cherokee replied: “The one you feed.”

Hmm, the word “automatic” is key here. My assumption is/was that by entering into lucid astral spaces we are transformed. I just assumed that I would go towards spiritual evolution (sorry Brian!), but of course, that is only my personal quest, so that is what I am giving out and receiving back – in bits and pieces – in LD space!

Yes, of course, thanks for mentioning sorcerers and shamans. I have known of some of them (here in Ecuador) and have really steered clear when I found out about what a great majority of them were involved in. Too dark for me – with traditions of enemies and revenge. And now it makes sense to me that they are caught up and perpetuating personal astral wars with each other. All of this time I had assumed that one would automatically want liberation from all of this!

So, let me rephrase this supposition: I think that the more we have conscious experience in lucid dimensions, in whatever way that is our desire to explore these realms, I do think that we undergo some kind of transformation. It could be positive or negative according to what we want, what we are looking for. But the transformation is actually an activation of our subtle mental dream body, (borrowing terminology from readings that I distantly remember from Casteñda) begins to take hold here in physical waking reality. The stronger this body becomes, I would think, the more important it becomes to the functioning awake mind in PWReality and the greater access one would have to return to lucid dimensions.

I think that what you are saying is that the personal Self has its own perspective and filter, in which out of that is a projected and manipulated scenario? And we all assume that this scenario is consensual reality and then get caught up in its theatre and believe that all others are experiencing the same thing.

Is it you and your brain or you and your Mind? A loose analogy – the brain is a computer and Mind is Cyberspace. Non local, reaching out to our concept of infinity. Possible of all things known (and unknown). If that is so, my question – what are the available pátterns and tendencies available to us as players in this large field of consciousness?

I fear, that if it would possible to actually harness this power…I might not like the person that I would be…and I mean instantly.

Carole and Brian – lucid dreaming ethics is fascinating area of debate — and both of ya’ll bring up valid views. There are SO many ways to use meta-consciousness. I am reminded that some of the most profound lucid dreamers in the world are sorcerers — or those shaman who use their abilities for malevolent reasons, such as harming other shaman or wishing sickness onto their enemies. Closer to home, I know a dreamer who often switches back and forth between dream figures in her lucid dreams. In each embodied dream character, she feels and thinks differently, and has a different hold on truth and reality. that’s a profound ability of the mind! For myself, lucidity often provides an opportunity for self-growth, but I believe this paradigm is culturally-mediated and personally sought-after, and not simply an automatic fruit of lucidity.

In your post you said something that I’ve never thought of before. “..that one automatically goes through some kind of personal transformation.”

With this I begin to wonder. Do many “high-level” lucid dreams have an easier time exploring both sides of a situation? I am very analytical and can easily argue a point that I don’t even agree with. I wonder if that has to do with years and years of the brain both creating a scenario and having the consciousness (sorry, my spelling is horrible) and having the ability to manipulate that scenario. Think about what that implies, that your brain is creating and manipulating at once (or at least very rapidly switching between “you” and “your brain”. I keep giving up on these forums because people keep bringing up spirituality as if that is always what it means. If that works for them, great, but I’d love to just talk with some like minded people. I’ve been lucid dreaming since I was 8 years old (thanks Nightmare on Elm Street!!!). I tried to write a book about it when I was 10..that lasted about 3 pages on my old typewriter haha.